Author Topic: New Persian Female -v- 7 year old Tabby Tom - Fight Probs  (Read 2289 times)

January 10, 2007, 03:36:17 PM
Hello, I am rather desperate now and wonder if anyone here can help.  This is the situation:

I have two tabby boys that are 7 years old and have been my pets since 8 months old.  One of them is a little larger than the other and he is called Lugosi, and he has always been the dominant one over his brother Spider.  When Lugosi doesn´t get what he wants (for example I won´t open a door of a room that he wants to go in for him), he always takes it out on his brother Spider and beats him up.  

Two years ago Lugosi had an operation that necessitated cutting out all his genital bits and turning him into a girl "down there", i.e. apart from being castrated he also now has no penis, but his chronic condition of having crystals in his bladder (FLUTD) is at least under control and he doesn´t get blocked anymore, if you understand what I mean.

Now, the problem is with Lugosi and Janelle.  Janelle is the newbie that came to us at the beginning of November last year, after a friend of mine and Janelle´s mummy Teresa died of a sudden brain aneurysm.  I immediately offered to take her in since Teresa was my friend and I love/adore cats as much as her, and especially since Janelle needs to be an indoor cat only and my two boys are already indoor cats.  

Janelle is a golden shaded Persian girl of 3 1/2 years of age.  When Teresa was still alive, Janelle was an only-cat and was much pampered and loved, and no doubt was used to playing first fiddle.  Janelle now has to share a one-bedroom apartment with not one but TWO cats which she is finding rather difficult I think.  Spider is very sweet and gentle with her, but she really doesn´t like Lugosi, who has hit her a few times and chased her to hide somewhere safe, like under the bed.  When Lugosi only comes into the room she starts growling and cowers into a corner.  She hasn´t attempted to hit back at him, or strike him first.  

Janelle is a much more calm and mellow kitty than the "boys".  The boys are quite mad and love to wrestle and dash around the house when it´s playtime for them.  Janelle doesn´t quite understand this behaviour and at first she just hid somewhere.  She is a bit more used to them doing this now, and she just watches from a little distance away, but in general the "boys" both play rather rough when they wrestle with each other or when playing with their toys.  In comparison, Janelle is much gentler (although you have to watch those claws with her!) at play or when, sometimes, dashing around a bit.  I liken her to a Persian Princess and Lugosi and Spider are just common, rough street thugs to her.  ;)

It of course goes without saying that when I am out at work I keep Janelle separate, locked in the bedroom with her own toilet and food.  

Lugosi has also scratched and bitten me in the heat of aggression when I tried to move him away from Janelle *before* he attacks her.  Lugosi is almost twice the size of Janelle and weighs almost twice as much too, although Janelle with all her long persian fur looks a lot bigger than she really is.  She is only a tiny cat under all that fluff.  From Lugosi´s point of view I can understand that his boss cat status is threatened and since Janelle has also always been a boss cat/only cat before, this is where they clash.  I also understand the whole aggression thing when Janelle first arrived in our household because Lugosi and Spider had never seen a longhaired cat before in their lives and Janelle must have looked like the most aggressive cat in the world to them because of her fur and her fluffy tail!!!  But I don´t think the latter is the case now that they are used to her.  It´s been two months now and things seem to be getting worse between the two rather than better....

At the same time, it also seems to be Janelle´s fault for growling and hissing at Lugosi.  He obviously, eventually, gets peed off with her "swearing" at him and then whacks her one over the head.   Janelle´s reaction is probably simply because she is absolutely terrified of Lugosi every time he comes near her.  

Please could someone here talk to both of them, separately or together, whatever you think best?

Anyway, here are some photos of them I hope you can work with:

Janelle




Lugosi



Janelle (left) and Lugosi


And Lugosi (left) wrestling with Spider, Janelle watching


Thanks so much in advance, I´m really at the end of my rope with those two!

Regards,
Barbarella
www.vonfluffenstein.com
www.catnipcamera.com

January 19, 2007, 04:40:08 AM
Reply #1
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Hello Barbarella!  

First let me say I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.  What a beautiful soul you are for taking in her beloved cat Janelle.   I know your friend is smiling on you for this act of love.

Second, let me say I'm a bit out of practice with communication so I didn't pick up much in the way of verifiable details.  I briefly read your post the day you posted it but did the communication a week later (without re-reading the post).  

Now that I've looked more closely at your post, I see a lot of that information in the reading.  I trully can't say how much was already in my brain somewhere even though I didn't consciously remember too much of it.  I am still a humble student...:)

Anyway, here are the impressions I got -

Janelle, Lugosi, Spider  01-17-07

-Lugosi is absolutely in charge and has no intention of giving up his alpha status;  he keeps the upper hand on Spider

-his surgery hasn't affected him in terms of status, in fact he feels so much better physically these days he's willing to take on the world (the surgical altering, as drastic as it was, hasn't altered his sense of male aggression, this was already well ingrained)

-indicates the new one needs to know that he is alpha; he is very used to Spider yielding to him in every way, and now expects Janelle to as well; he doesn't seem too open to discussion on this point (LOL).

-Spider is the 'goofy' one, more submissive, would rather play than fight (loves to wrestle and roughhouse with Lugosi, but it is play)

-Spider is very much a 'youngster' in his temperament and playfulness; to him Janelle is an interesting new arrival but he would not usurp Lugosi for her.

-Janelle is seen as the interloper, vying for space and attention

-her world has changed dramatically; although she's feeling more centered now and is slowly adjusting, she indicates that she is no longer the 'princess' of her domain and she feels that loss of status

-she is grateful for her new human's care; she understands that her first Mom is now in Spirit, she accepts this as the way it is;  indicates that the new Mom is very kind to her and has a nice, gentle touch.

-Janelle is intimidated by Lugosi, isn't sure why he has to be so mean to her; she hisses and spits to warn him to keep his distance, sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't; she doesn't want to run away and hide but often feels she has to (she misses out on the activities and affection from you when she's hiding)

-She  senses that Spider is a nicer cat but Lugosi gets in the way of any developing friendship.

-She rather enjoys watching the boys' antics but only from a safe distance; she doesn't want to fight or cause upset but when Lugosi gets too close she can't help but get her hackles up as a protective stance; she doesn't trust Lugosi not to be aggressive..  

-She would be content enough to co-exist quietly if Lugosi would just leave her alone.


My overall impression is that these three will probably never be close buddies and that space is an issue in how well they'll be able to live in harmony.  Janelle needs a space of her own (besides under the bed) where she feels safe and has privacy.  

I tried to send images of peaceful co-existance to all three cats; reassured Lugosi that he would always be alpha but also reminded him that alpha does  carry a responsibility of protection for the pride, and Janelle is now part of his pride.  

Please let us know how it goes with you and the kitties.  Thanks for the opportunity to practice.

Vicki

January 19, 2007, 06:14:18 AM
Reply #2
Thanks for your analysis, Vicki.  I have to say, maybe I´m a natural animal communicator (only I don´t know it yet), because all of those thoughts had already occurred to me and you simply confirmed everything I was already thinking! :)  

I am currently conveying the images of peaceful co-existence that you suggest to Janelle and Lugosi in particular and try to do that every day even when I am not with them.  Together with the images that you have already conveyed to them, hopefully we´ll get somewhere....

Thanks again very much for your help and I´ll keep you informed how it goes!

February 10, 2007, 11:38:00 AM
Reply #3
Hi, Barbarella

I tried to communicate with Janelle and Lugosi and very briefly with Spider.  I should also let you know that it's been over 3 months since my last communication session here online, though I've "talked" with Salem, my cat.  So, I was a bit nervous trying to get back into this habit.

I first spoke with Janelle.  She is a very sweet, gentle, calm, patient cat.  I feel that she is still adjusting to losing her human and then also given this "frustrating" task of adapting to Lugosi.  But, she is very grateful for your help in taking her in and knows that you try very hard to make the situation better, especially with your own calmness and patience.  I get the sense that she is in constant fear of Lugosi.  Even when the door is closed and she is in the room to herself, she is still a little afraid, though less.  And partly it's because she knows that you are not there to "protect her" if Lugosi should be able to get in somehow.  Plus, she can hear them outside so close by too.  (Maybe you would reassure her that they can't get in?)

Next, I tried to communicate with Lugosi.  It was a bit tougher to get in tune with him.  The sense he gave me was that HE was the big boss.  I'm not sure how else to word it.  He has SUCH a strong sense of being in charge and the boss, I"m not sure I felt anything stronger from a male cat than what he projected.  He's the boss...period.  I got a little sensation that he also has a small "sweeter" side to him, but it was as if he didn't want me to know that nor wanted to expand on it.  I tried to explain why Janelle was there because it didn't seem to me that neither he nor Spider understood.  I'm thinking he just concentrated on the new cat being there so understanding why she was there isn't something he paid attention to.  Anyway, I attempted to let him know how Janelle got there.  I'm not sensing that this will make him change his behavior dramatically but I gave him the info and let him take in what he wanted.    I didn't get a big commitment from him in trying to get along with Janelle more, but there was a tiny "I'll try and see what happens...just no commitment"

Afterwards, I got in touch very briefly with Spider.  I sense that he is so playful.  Not too much worries, just play.  I also explained to him how Janelle to got to move into "their" home and thanked him for being civil with Janelle.  I thought letting them understand Janelle's side might make them feel less "in the dark".  By the way, Lugosi felt upset that he didn't get a say in letting Janelle in.   But I hope he understands a little.

I hope this communication helps you.  Please let us know how things are.  

Angela

February 10, 2007, 11:55:15 AM
Reply #4
Thanks so much Angela.  When did you do this communication?  Because since yesterday I have seen a small change in Lugosi - he still stares at her and she growls and hisses as usual, but his face looks more mellow, not as threatening when he does that and his body movements are also slower and not as jumpy, abrupt and aggressive (which scares Janelle a lot).  I even went as far as leaving them all together in the apartment, without shutting Janelle in a room.  And when I came back home I found her IN the room with both Spider and Lugosi (in her safe kitty cradle, mind you, but the same room nevertheless!).  Usually she hides in the small utility room next door.

One thing that you say is that I didn´t talk to Lugosi about Janelle coming to live with us.  But I DID!  I talked to both the boys every day for a few days before Janelle arrived, telling them that they´re getting a little sister and that she´s longhaired, very pretty and very sweet and that I won´t give them any less love or anything, but the will ALL get my attention like before.... man, I talked for hours with them about this - maybe Lugosi turned on his selective hearing and didn´t want to know, hehe.  

Anyway, thanks for this and hopefully when I come home tonight I will find the three of them together in the living room again, in peace. :)

February 11, 2007, 05:54:16 PM
Reply #5
Hi Barbarella!

Wow!  I checked out the webpage not at all expecting such a quick reply!  Actually, I was reading the online article about the people who died in some tunnels in the Canary Islands.  And I thought about you and the reading I did yesterday and said to myself, I really doubt there is already a reply, but saw the article as a sign for me to check out this page.  And so I did!  

Thanks for letting us know about the improvement!  I'm not sure how much time diffference there is between the Canary Islands and the West Coast, but I did the reading yesterday (Saturday) morning.  Maybe the reading helped.  Maybe someone else also communicated and helped.  And/or maybe YOU also helped!  I'm just really glad things have turned for the better!!!   :D  

Thank you for the update and getting me back on track with AC!    It took me a lot of courage to do the reading since it's been so long.   I hope things will continue to improve.  I will now send a warm "thank you" to Lugosi!   I would love to hear of any more improvements!

Take care,
Angela

February 12, 2007, 12:21:20 AM
Reply #6
I have my email notifications turned on, so I know immediately when there is a reply to my post! :D

I think the time difference is something like 8 or 9 hours  or so earlier where you are,  so that would sort of fit in....

There was a scuffle last night where I heard a screeching meow, but I think it was Lugosi and Spider fighting because I found a bush of tabby, not long persian, fur on the floor.  However, Janelle obviously got scared and ran away hissing, and hid high up on the 7 foot scratch tree in the utility room.

I also had another chat with Lugosi explaining *why* exactly Janelle is here - because her mummy died.  And I asked him to imagine what he would do if *his* mummy died and how sad and scared he would be too.  Like you said, I also feel he doesn´t want to hear about it, but also that he wants to stay in my "good book" and will probably carry on being a little bit nicer/more tolerant toward her.  But this obviously doesn´t mean ALL the time!

Let´s see how it goes as time goes by.  I am also going to an Amelia Kinkade workshop on my birthday in April - yes, amazingly, she is coming to Lanzarote (tiny dot of an island off the west coast of Africa)!!!  I am so looking forward to this and to learning some stuff from her... :)

March 10, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
Reply #7
How exciting, Barbarella!!!
I hope the workshop will be a great experience for you.
And I hope tension will continue to ease between Janelle and Lugosi.
Good Luck.
Angela

April 13, 2007, 03:17:02 PM
Reply #8
Hi Barbarella,

What a wonderful friend you are to take in Janelle.  Bless you.
Let me say  this is my first reading on this site and also my  first in quite awhile.

I contacted them yesterday then Lugosi again today.

I am a little rusty at this but here goes.  I first spoke with Lugosi.  Everyone thinks I am a thug he says pouting.   Then he won’t talk for a while.  I ask him to talk about anything he wants. He says he likes the music I have on, some meditation music.  It is soothing, he feels comfortable.  Slippers, Janelle lays on moms slippers.  He doesn’t like that,  jealous. I see light colored slip on style slippers then big fluffy ones. He would like to be the only cat.  Having all your attention.  He doesn’t want to talk anymore.  I sense he is tired of talking about this.
 
So I talk to Janelle.

Janelle -constantly in my hair!  Won’t back off. Why?  he has serious problems.  Control issues. Insecurity.   I came from peace and quiet to this she says.  I ask her - How do you think he would react if you did not growl at him and instead, ignore him or maybe send him nice feeling. You know, be the nicer one.  And if he gets aggressive you could bat back at him.  Don’t show any fear.  What do you think?  I suppose I  could try, l’m afraid he will hurt me.   Do it when mom is around to help. She is showing me her being combed or brushed.  She misses her mama doing it. Her coat feels thick and matted to me. I believe this is bothering her although I don’t think she will let you brush her. She misses her first mama, lying on the floor with her and Jenelle would snuggle her face in her mama’s hair.  I see blond hair, shoulder length.

Spider –  rubs cheek on me.  He is a sweetheart.  What on your mind?  Mom is understanding of situation. He seems to be in good health. Favorites are going outside in the sun and drinking coffee???

4/13
Lugosi  favorite is to be with mom as she bathes.  Enjoys the relaxed atmosphere.  Also, he says your toe nails with polish are beautiful.  I see sparkle polish.  (that's all I saw honest) He wants Janelle to leave. He intimidates to show who is boss.  He wants all of moms attention.  He adores you.

Well that’s it for me.  A bit scattered I must say. I will now read what the other communicators received.  Please let me know if I got any of this right and the best of luck with this situation.
Kathy